Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
Linux phone will hopefully become realistic thing.
But the more this goes on the more my attitude has changed. I now do far less on my phone, I’m more careful about what I expose to it. As a result I spend very little time on it and that’s been great.
To be clear I hate what’s happening, it’s just been working out to improve my time.
As of right now, it’s looking like GrapheneOS will be unaffected, and Google has yet to lock down the bootloader. So this should remain a valid option for at least 2 years.
Other than that:
- Any smartphones with an unlocked bootloader + any ROMs without gapps
- Chinese smartphones with non-Google Android builds
- Linux smartphones
- Bonus: Huawei is about to release their own non-Android OS, but I wouldn’t expect it to be privacy-friendly
Honestly there probably isn’t any good, long-term solution. Personally I’m somewhat shocked we’ve gone this many years with reasonably open smartphones. Next step is probably closing bootloaders in new laptops, as part of the switch to ARM (which is already undergoing).
I’m pretty seriously considering the pinephone. I think it’s super neat there’s a LoRa module backplate you can buy with it, although my understanding is nobody has made it work with meshtastic yet.
Plain burner flip phone and a wifi only Linux device that connects to a hotspot. F google and Apple.
@Sailor88@lemmy.world @ComradePedro@lemmy.ml
I’d really love a Linux phone (personally, I have a Linux PC and I use Arch, btw) so don’t get me wrong when I question: what about the banking and government apps? Yeah, because finance systems are getting increasingly digital around the world and every payment will eventually need to involve banking apps, and you guessed it: just Android (Google) and iOS (Apple), no Linux, no KaiOS. One will eventually need apps to pay for rent and consumer bills, even for buying groceries, as fiat currency will get more digital and less physical.
And, no, European Union won’t fight against it because, in fact, the same European Union is seeking to digitalize EUR (see “ECB publishes third progress report on the digital euro preparation phase”, published by European Central Bank on 16 July 2025). It’s not a matter of if, but when physical currencies will become ruled out, and “For Our Security™”, Linux (alonside other alternative OSes) will either be ruled out from internet banking altogether or it’ll be forced to comply with “security requirements” that, in practice, would turn Linux indistinguishable from Android and iOS.
And this seems to be where everywhere is headed, it’s not just an European or USian phenomenon. The future is bleak.
what about the banking and government apps?
Use the browser versions. Not everything has to be done through apps
You will use Monero or Parrish.
No, seriously though, the circular economy is growing and by contributing to it, you are giving the middle finger to these fuckers.
Enticing but would require most to completely change the way they use their devices, unless the Linux device is in the size and shape of a phone.
That’s true but it’s either that or accept a Google or Apple phone. It’s what I do and I love not having instant reply expectation placed on me.
It’s like the good ole days before cell phones. 😂
It also allows me to significantly improve my personal privacy.
For an experience a bit more familiar, you might consider a pixel, GrapheneOS and pgpp. If I understand it correctly, this setup is a Google-free and privacy-based carrier alternative to the system that is currently at risk.
At this point, I’m just hoping to grab a HarmonyOS phone soon. I’d rather have China hoovering up my data than the US, 5 &14-Eyes, and fascist US tech corporation. Terrible compromise, but I don’t see an inexpensive Linux phone on the horizon any time soon.
Issue is whether you can even use it outside of China because of the wireless band difference. I had a Fairphone in Canada that suddenly stopped connecting to the network.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it is still possible to live without a smartphone (for now).
Things are fine for now, but long term Google will force out FOSS third parties. Linux phones get better every day, though. I imagine Linux will be relatively ready for primetime by the time Graphene can no longer continue.
I have seen no examples of a Linux os that is even close to being usable for daily smartphone needs and progress is laughable in most cases. What are you seeing that makes you think it’s an option for anyone but the most stubborn of users?
I’m not saying it is currently ready, I’ve never used a Linux phone. I’m just saying it will probably be fine in a decade or whenever Google manages to choke out Graphene and such on the Android side.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
Android is Linux of course since the Android kernel is a Linux kernel. I’m aware you are probablly referring to using traditional Linux OSes that are typically used on desktops on mobile phones. That would, however, be a significant regression for security. Android and iOS are both modern mobile OSes with an in-depth security model which includes a mandatory app sandbox with a sane permission model. This is not present on traditional desktop OSes. This is not meant to diss on those OSes, they are just children of their time, they were created much earlier, security practices have evolved. I can see why it would be a fun experience though to tinker with, it would just not be a secure experience and it’s unlikely to get there because the improvements in traditional Linux distros go much slower than they go on Android and Android is already massively ahead.
I hope so. But I’m gonna be real grumpy about it when I can’t tap to pay for shit anymore because all of the standardized payment apps will only work on signed Google and Apple devices.
I thought tap to pay was already restricted like that
It is, but I’m fine with using stock Samsung in exchange for near complete control of my own device. They take away side loading and I’m out of here.
Until substantially more people join the fight for privacy or something else fundamentally changes, I think there is a very real possibility of Google completely clamping down on Android while governments and workplaces mandate apps that only run on phones with all of Google or Apple’s bells and whistles.
But the folks at GrapheneOS, Calyx, and Murena seem to be a devoted and resourceful bunch, so I am hopeful that they can give something for us to work with, even if Google pulls the plug, whether it’s a fork of Android or rebasing to mobile Linux.
If that all falls through, I’ll look for whichever phone supports Linux best and eventually move everything over. The vast majority of the apps I use regularly on my GrapheneOS phone aren’t very demanding and have a decent alternative on Linux. And whatever apps are forced on me by other people will reside on a dedicated Android phone, ideally with a removable battery.
For this year, I’d still recommend a secondhand or reseller Pixel with GrapheneOS. Everything just works on it.
we need the devs who make lineageos to come up with something, because that’s what most people have access to. and their stance is that they won’t be doing anything to bypass any of google’s restrictions.
that’s if unlocking is still a thing in the near future.
Fuck it, I’m going back to Landline
Weary traveler, I beseeth thee to not harken down this path.
I hear tales of dark spirits haunting those old byways. Ones of greed, with an emotionless façade, and hunger for gold from too-eager souls.
Related: Has anyone here used Pretty Good Phone Privacy (PGPP)?
Yes, absolutely there is hope.
Phones that don’t support Google play services (AKA any hardcore privacy phone) will not be directly effected by Google restricting sideloading. The restriction is only for phones that use the Google suite. (source: https://9to5google.com/2025/08/25/android-apps-developer-verification/ “This requirement applies to ‘certified Android devices’ that have Play Protect and are preloaded with Google apps.”) Graphene OS isn’t going anywhere, AOSP is open source, even if Google tried to make that change in the OS, the community would hard-fork AOSP instantly and continue like nothing ever happened.
Realistically this is going to squeeze people “in the middle” towards fully-google controlled Android (one exteme) and towards fully-de-googled Android (the other extreme). Its just elminating the middle. Which is bad for people trying to gradually de-google their life, but not as dire as it might seem.
On the bright side, this is an opportunity for play-services spoofing to become commonplace and easy, and could cause more apps to avoid google play services. The EU also has a shot at forcing google to allow sideloading, since they’ve recently been forcing Apple to move in that direction.
So, while not a bright future, its far from hopeless for privacy respecting Android phones.
This is the point, isn’t it?
Lock down their own ecosystem because they’re jealous of how Apple does it, so they can herd all users into their walled garden. Then close the gates behind them. There’s no easy way out, you can’t just wander back and forth anymore. You have to scale a wall in the dead of night and shed a tear as you look back and see everyone else having a lovely life, then set off into the dark forest of privacy on your own.
People hate friction in the first place. This is as much friction as they can realistically make on their own without triggering anti-trust cases and EU fines.
What do you think will happen next?
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up.
EU or similar wrecking Google over being monopolistic would be nice but unlikely.
Same but targeting phone manufacturers.We need the EU to regulate Banking and Payment apps to not rely on Google apis first and mandate that they have to be available in open app stores or as apk.
Right now the EU regulation is pushing banks to require more of Google or Apple because it’s unclear and banks won’t take a chance of getting fined.
Among the requirements are: ensure the device and the OS were not “altered”. What does that mean exactly? Answer: [crickets].
But that’s why many banks just go with the Google Play Integrity API.
Even just forcing them to stop blocking access on the website when they detect a phone would be nice.
I have to enable desktop mode on ironfox since ~2 years ago for my bank. Then the scaling is terrible and its hard to click buttons
They don’t even do that with their own apps.
Maybe they can regulate themselves first as a start then. They already use Matrix, so it’s not like they are completely lost regarding IT Security and FOSS.
Exactly. It’s like we’ve somehow been told that we must support only the main 2 OSs and nothing else.
They don’t seem to care about Apple cut for other app stores why would they care about this.
Cause it’s a European / national security concern in the long run.
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up
From the EU to wreck Google e-Foundation, with advantage substituting GMail, GDocs and GDrive >Murena Workspace, Murena Phones (FairPhone) with /e/OS by default, Murena is OpenSource (GitLab) selfhostable or Freemium if not, including Murena Cloud., All 100% de-googled and encrypted, no knowledge. The EU offers enough alternatives, you only have to use these.
i was going to do this until i discovered that their non-pixel devices have poor network coverage in the united states.
also doesn’t /e/os has the same problems that other projects like grapheneos has when it comes to google locking down android?
Yes, FairPhone is currently somewhat bullied by the traditional companies. I don’t think that /e/OS will have problems with Google, it’s like also Linage OS, a fork of Android (FOSS) with the only difference that all refereences and APIs of Google are gutted and out of it’s influence. It’s a pure Android code as is and as such 100% compatible with all Android apps, but these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
Didn’t Google recently require all app developers to register w them?
In an FOSS which is free to use, to fork and modify for everyone? The only copyright that Google has over Android made, that the fork can’t be called Android nor use it’s logo, because this the forks are called /e(OS and LinageOS with different logos. Naturally Google has the right to select Android devs and those which develope apps for Google play, but this isn’t aplicable to the mencioned and other forks, these are out of the reach of Google, except if they still contain certain APIs from Google or using apps from Google Play, not the case in the mencioned forks. It’s like with Chromium, there are forks which simply patch their logo on it and those which use de-googled forks (Brave (?), Vivaldi, de-googled Chromium and also EDGE (with it’s own tracking APIs from M$) )which are not phoning home to Google.
absolutely ture in a purely foss environment; but we’re talking about android phones whose manufacturers are locking down the bootloaders in lock step with google’s efforts to lock down android.
both lineageos and e/os/ are going to be difficult to maintain going forward without projects like murena making their own phones.
Said this in another thread
So how long until celluar providers also say you have to have a trusted device to activate your SIM? Apple, Google, Samsung, automotive and Windows would be fine and they’d probably allow their branded or limited hotspots.
This would basically eliminate any Linux option (pc or phone), and DIY devices. I could see other OOB vendors getting on board to be certified to have a certificate issued to them.
with esim, this gets even easier for them to do.
There’s no hope for privacy at all as long as American and the 5 eyes exist.
I was thinking this. With advances in text recognition, they can potentially filter all that data now. Since five eyes is essentially for industrial espionage, google first requiring access to source code to ensure compatibility, and that you can’t really turn off chrome web page sniffing (I have found the disabled chrome app still running, with “force stop” available,) all this makes more sense than the little bit they’d squeeze out of ad revenue chasing people who avoid chrome and google assistant. After all, it isn’t bad actors or people who already buy from google they are spending so much effort on - it is the tech competent.
Yes. As long as GrapheneOS still exists there is at least some hope. The sad thing is even before this outside of GrapheneOS there really isn’t any other “ROM” actually focused on privacy.
I’ve always wanted to try one of these.
yeah i can see this kinda thing becoming the resistance by the looks of it. i’m already wondering to myself if it could be practical to use something like this with postmarket or aosp.
i wonder if i could make it thinner and more ergonomic if i desoldered unused io.
