• osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org
    57·
    10 days ago

    Don’t have a source, just first hand experience. I work adjacent to multi-family construction and parking is one of the common items of discussion. It’s treated as an ante item that they would love to dispense with, as developers would love for every square foot of their footprint to be spent on units or other spaces which can be directly realized as revenue.

    But that wasn’t the argument I was making, and, whether intentional or not, that’s not what the person in OP’s screenshot was saying. We were saying that there needs to be an examination of the local infrastructure to see whether it was able to support additional density before approving additional density. I’m not using this as an argument to say density bad, I’m saying that if the fucking water mains on the street don’t support another hundred units of draw during peak hours then building a hundred units on that plot is a recipe for disaster unless the water main is upgraded first, and the same goes for the transit infrastructure.

    Based on the downthread comments, it sounds like this area would be great for adding additional density so there’s no problem there, but there should be a check to see if something is going to break if you add 300 car-dependent commuters to a city block someone was able to grab on the cheap because it had no meaningful access to the transit infrastructure of the area.

    • grue@lemmy.worldMEnglish
      39·
      10 days ago

      Don’t have a source, just first hand experience. I work adjacent to multi-family construction and parking is one of the common items of discussion.

      The key thing to understand is that just because NIMBYs bitch about something, doesn’t mean it’s true. By repeating their nonsense as if it were fact, all you’re doing is spreading misinformation.

      I’m not using this as an argument to say density bad, I’m saying that if the fucking water mains on the street don’t support another hundred units of draw during peak hours then building a hundred units on that plot is a recipe for disaster unless the water main is upgraded first, and the same goes for the transit infrastructure.

      …but there should be a check to see if something is going to break if you add 300 car-dependent commuters to a city block someone was able to grab on the cheap because it had no meaningful access to the transit infrastructure of the area.

      This argument doesn’t follow because transit infrastructure is not like water: it’s an optional enhancement, not a necessity. Specifically, people can still walk or bike if they don’t have it.

      People can’t own cars if they have nowhere to put them. If you make no provision for parking you won’t get “300 car-dependent commuters;” out of necessity, you’ll get 300 non-car-dependent ones instead.

      The bottom line is that transit never gets built unless the density justifies it first. That’s just how it works, in terms of winning Federal funding and such. If you refuse to build density on the grounds that there isn’t already transit, you will never get density or transit. NIMBYs understand this, and that’s exactly why they make that bad-faith argument.

      • Zexks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        62·
        10 days ago

        Uh transit is not optional unless you want to revert to company towns. And you’re just moving people from private transit dependence to public transit dependence. Think about that for a second. Your asking people to give up their private and personal nearly unrestricted transit access and become wholly dependant on public infrastructure and governing bodies. How many people here trust and support their local governments right now. Especially enough to become trapped to “how far can you walk in 100+ weather”

        • grue@lemmy.worldMEnglish
          25·
          10 days ago

          Uh transit is not optional unless you want to revert to company towns.

          What are you even talking about? If you don’t have public transit in a densely-built area, you can just fucking walk! Or bike, for that matter. Well-designed cities are compact enough that you can get anywhere you need to go even without transit. Transit is just an extra layer on top, so that you can more easily choose to be picky about going to store B across town instead of walking to store A in your neighborhood, but you don’t need to choose store B over store A. (And even then, in a well-designed city even store B is reasonable to get to at least by bike, if not on foot.)

          I have absolutely no idea what point you think you’re making about “company towns” and “private transit.”

          Think about that for a second. Your asking people to give up their private and personal nearly unrestricted transit access and become wholly dependant on public infrastructure and governing bodies.

          Streets are public infrastructure. You’re already dependent on it, even if you’re driving a car.

          Especially enough to become trapped to “how far can you walk in 100+ weather”

          The answer to that question is “plenty far enough, in a well-designed city.” And the “in 100+ weather” part is just strawmanning, BTW – even with global warming, it’s the exception, not the rule.